Voice/Vision Holocaust Survivor Oral History Archive

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Martin Koby - April 20, 1999

I think I did see that in here.

Not in there, I don't think so. But keep looking. It's okay.

Okay.

That was even smaller than our village, okay? Dombrovka. This might be somewheres bigger towns, but not in--okay, maybe it--I doubt it.

Where--where was it?

Dombrovka .

Yeah, but ???...

It's about three kilometers from Giuszwica.

Three kilometers...

From Giuszwica.

West or south?

South--southwest from us.

Near Dubno?

Oh, that's--Dubno is like twenty kilometers away.

So this is closer.

Oh, three or four kilometers.

It's not on here.

No.

Okay.

Of no significance. We were hiding out with--at a uh, a name called Mr. Zummer, Z-u-m-m-e-r, okay? He had--he was the only son of this old Mr. Zummer. And they had a very prosperous farm--nice that the grandfather you know, Mr.--the old Mr. Zummer built. The young Zummer that my father had dealings with, the young one, he must have been my father's age, okay? Around--in his forties, that--when I got to know him. But he was a playboy. He went to college or university or the--he got his education in Czechoslovakia before the war.

Hm.

So, you have to understand, that takes money, to send your son to Czechoslovakia to...

Uh-huh.

...to a foreign--you know, to a foreign country and educated--to educate. And he came home and got married. they had a bunch of kids. And he--whatever he managed to farm, I don't know how good he managed it, but his father, that is the old Mr. Zummer, was still alive even when we were there, when we were hiding. He didn't know we were there.

The old man didn't know.

No. We knew that uh, Mr. Zummer, the young Zummer used to call him--always used to come over to our house to talk to somebody you know, to--somebody that could read a book or somebody could read--who read the paper or somebody went to town and got all kind of news things, as if he couldn't--he could do that too. And uh, he used to spend the afternoon on some--Sun...some Saturdays you know, just sitting around. On days that it was raining you know or snow or maybe he felt like drinking. He was a big--he loved alcohol. And he used to always sit there. And he says you know, "Kobylanski, I am an intellectual." He said, "You know that I'm an intellectual." "Oh, sure, Mr. Zummer, you went to school in Czechoslovakia." That's how I know about--otherwise you know, I, I didn't interview people what they you know, what they did. The rumor is--or the, the--I, I--the rumor was that he betrayed a f...a, a family of Jewish people from our village.