Voice/Vision Holocaust Survivor Oral History Archive

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Martin Koby - April 20, 1999

Mr.--the, the young Mr. Zummer?

The--Zummer, yes. We heard--there were talk--there were a bunch of--a family of Jews were killed in this forest you know, that they had lived in a, a bunker there. And he betrayed them and they got killed, so--whether the Germans killed them or the Ukrainians--and I'm prone to believe that the Ukrainians did, because Germans did not come around looking for Jews. Yet, when we came there, we stayed there! We were there. Well, what do you think if you ??? you know, what was going on in our minds, or my, or my--not in, not in--I couldn't think you know, I couldn't--I didn't comprehend that. Now I know. The question is, what did my parents think that they knew there were rumors in the village that Mr. Zummer betrayed this Jewish group of people in the bunker in the forest, how's he going to treat us? Did they ever think about it?

And you don't know if he paid them or not?

Oh, no, my parents had no money to pay. They had no, no--they had no resources to pay, come on.

Your father must have been a remarkable person?

I don't know. I don't know whether--but they had--he had my mother. And I told you, my mother was not a diplomat.

Right. But she knew Zummer as well.

Well, sure. Maybe she went--no, she didn't go to school with him. My, my mother and her sisters and a brother did not go to public school.

So do you think that your fath...your parents conferred about what his reaction would be...

Yes, but--yes.

...and then made a decision and tried...

Yeah. They had to. I mean...

What was the choice at this point?

There were not too many choices uh, know...

You either went--what--if you didn't go to Zummer, what would it have been the choices?

I don't know. I don't know what the choice--there were other choices, I'm sure. They had--somewheres in their sleeve or their pocket or their hat.

Hm.

But if you would have asked me you know, where should we go now? I would have--I had maybe one choice. One.

It's a mystery, isn't it?

What's that?