Voice/Vision Holocaust Survivor Oral History Archive

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Judy Schreiber - February 1, 2013

Okay. Tell me about, so you're in Theresienstadt, how did it come to the war ending? Do you have any particular uh, memories of...

Yeah.

Liberation or the war?

I, I do uh, here's what I remember about liberation.

Mm-hm.

I remember my parents fighting and the reason that I remember the fighting was because everybody, I didn't understand at that time, but apparently everybody around us was getting sick. I think an epidemic of typhus broke out.

Oh.

Which I did not understand then. My father got a hold of some kind of a little wagon and a horse. And he wanted to get out of there immediately and go back to Prague. I knew that Russian soldiers had come in, and one of the things that I remember about the Russian soldiers, believe it or not, it must have been prevalent, was that I remember one of them rolling up his sleeve and showing me all these watches he had. He had like three or four watches on his hands, and I remember him saying, "davai hodinky," davai is a watch, and hodinky is give me, something like that. In other words, he was collecting, I don't know where, where they were getting them, but they were taking watches.

Uh-huh.

I don't know if it was from the Nazis maybe.

Mm-hm.

Or if it was from whomever. So I remember Russian soldiers, I remember my dad and mother fighting and my mother wanted to say goodbye to certain people, and my dad was rushing her.

Hm.

"Hurry up, hurry up, we have to leave, we have to leave." And the next thing I remember is being in that little wagon, it was some kind of a little like uh, farm little wagon.

Mm-hm.

And we were riding back to Prague and I remember dead horses along the side of the, the road. I just remember, like flash memories of looking, there, there was a dead horse and then I saw another dead horse...

Geesh.

And that scared me.

Sure. You know, going--speaking of death, when you saw these, going back a second, I'm sorry.

Yeah.

When you saw these dead bodies what did you think, feel?

Uh, here's what I remember uh, feeling and I know that the repercussions that it had clearly, because I, I uh, became immensely fearful of death.

Mm-hm.

And I remember the consciousness of being fearful about dying all of my life, from early childhood on. I remember fearing that my mother would die, fearing that my father would die, fearing uh, that uh, having this vague fear about people disappearing. Like somebody would be there and then not be there. I think it handicapped my ability to, to make um, close connections throughout a lot of my adult life later on.

Mm-hm.

But as a child, I, I had a fear that was at times overwhelming.

Mm-hm.

And I didn't know exactly what to call it.

Hm.

Uh, I didn't have a name for it. I don't think that my parents understood that I even had it.

Did your parents, did you talk to your parents about seeing these bodies and...

No.

No, you just kept it to yourself.

No, and my dad had some kind of a nervous breakdown uh, when we lived on the east side when I was about eleven.

Mm-hm.

And I always uh, he got into to bed and he didn't get up for a long time, I don't know remember uh, exactly, but I, I remember always fearing this separation anxiety. I did not want to be separated from my parents and I was always fearful that they were going to die. But then it became a generalized fear that I was afraid uh, that people was, were going to die, or that I was going to die. I associated it to death, but maybe it wasn't, maybe it was just generalized kind of anxiety about the things that I saw, that I couldn't...then as I got older I began, you know, reading and I began explaining some of it to myself.

Mm-hm. Mm-hm, mm-hm.

But by then it was almost like some of that fear became real because, I think, my dad started becoming basically non-functional.

Oh.

I mean, you know, he never had a steady job.

Mm-hm.

Um, I think he came out of there broken.

I see.

And I, I was growing up in the United States as an American kid, because that's what I was. I learned how to speak when we moved to Louisville I spoke perfect English, like within three months cause' I was uh, eight and a half, nine and they put me in kindergarten, I was so humiliated. They did not have English for foreign born then.

I see.

And so, you know, I taught myself how to speak and the more that I acclimated in the U.S. as part of my kid life, the more I began to see how not acclimated my parents were.

Got it. Um, this much been made of the book, and now the film, Hannah's Suitcase? Were you ever aware of uh, any of this uh, that was going on? No, the children the um, you, you didn't have time with the other children, you had mentioned.

I did not have a lot of contact with children.

Mm-hm.

But, I was aware, I think what caused me enormous fears, the things that I relate my fears to then that I remember is uh, the fact that my father was stealing fruit and somebody might come by. And I was always like someone's gonna, it was fear time.

Uh-huh.

My father, one time uh, stole an eel from this fishing expedition thing that he would go on for the Germans, wrapped it around himself, I guess killed it and brought it back to that pigsty thing. But the eel, this was told to me later, but I remember the smell. The eel would spoil.

Oh.

So my parents, this thing had a little chimney in it, I guess, of some sorts.

Yes.

And my dad tried to smoke the eel.

Uh-huh.

And the scent...

Oh.

Started wafting through and they became terrified that somebody would smell it and come by and kill us. So I remember that there was fear about the smell, fear about the fruit that was stolen from on top there.

Mm-hm.

Uh, a, a...above Theresienstadt, that was grown there.

Mm-hm.

Then there was fear uh, about what, we used to line up to get food. I would go with my dad or I remember there was these Kaserne you had to go there to get your food. And I have the food card here, but we had to carry a food card. And the fear that I remember from that uh, from the food and the eating episode...

Mm-hm.

Was the fact that there was a well there...

Mm-hm.

In the courtyard where we had to go and line up to get food. And the well was covered by two half of a, of a large circle of concrete, with a slit in the middle. That's how they covered up the well so that it wouldn't be used or whatever. And it was right where we used to line up. And my dad used to give me the food card to eat, to hold on to until we got to the place where they would, like, pour us something. Well I dropped the food card into the well.

Oh.

And uh, enormous fear, and I remember there were some men that helped my dad, that were holding on to him or something. And he had to get the food card out. And so, I remember that a tremendous amount of fear from that day...

Mm-hm.

That we were not going to be able to eat.

I see.

And he did get the food card out somehow.

Mm-hm.

But isolated recalls of severe fear.

Mm-hm.

Then I began dreaming about these dead bodies off and on, and I had flashbacks to that, to--mainly to the wagons pulling up.

Uh-huh.

That on the one hand, on the other hand I have some beautiful memories of being by a river and grass, and dandelions growing there. And my dad being a very soothing voice telling me uh, stories.

Mm-hm.

I do remember that, um.

Mm-hm. Okay.

Um, I uh, I have some positive play memories from there. Just like, picking up those silver pieces of paper...

Yes.

And gathering those and uh, I remember walking a lot with my dad and him holding my hand. And I remember that as being like a good thing. It was uh, I remember one Pesach they somehow managed to make matzahs.

Hm, really.

And my, my dad 'til I lost track of it, had some kind of a little uh, was like a utensil thing with a little roller on the top with etches to roll on top of the matzahs. And somehow I remember matzahs being made in the camp and I don't, but I remember there was fear attached there. Uh, it had to be hidden, it was anxiety and just fear...

Fear.

Fear, fear.

Fear, fear, fear.

Fear, fear, and then I remember we had a dog. And then the dog was gone. Uh, not it was ours dog, our dog, but it was a dog that hung out in that courtyard. And then the dog disappeared and at some point I remember thinking, "We ate the dog?" And I don't know how that came to me and then I remember a fight my parents had over a rabbit, cause' my mother thought we ate some rabbit and it wasn't kosher. And my dad caught a rabbit and there was fear associated with the rabbit and a dog. And just, those are, those are my, my fear memories and, um...