Voice/Vision Holocaust Survivor Oral History Archive

Martin Koby - April 20, 1999

The Ukrainians

They spoke with the Germans? They...

No, not the Germans, to the Ukrainians. This was not done by the Germans.

So ???...

The uh, the administration of the village was done by the natives.

Okay. What--was there, was there a, a Judenrat as well?

No, there was no Judenrat.

Okay. That was in--that was--well...

I mean, we had forty-eight Jews.

...that was in Rovno, okay. All right. So your mother and...

And Aunt Hava...

...talked to...

...talked to somebody, I don't know exactly to who.


But I have a suspicion. But that's not good enough.

It's good enough for--I mean, for now.

Right now. There were--you see, and the parents--the parents of these college students, of the intellectuals, that my mother talked to--the, the two of them went and talked to. I'm sure of that.


Because who has more influence over their kids than a father and mother, right?


They must have.


Because the men were let out of the cellar and the next day we started going to work. But you know, you don't know exactly how to behave yourself, I remember.

On a work gang?

On a...


Under working conditions and the working schedule, what kind of work you're going to do.

Did--and, and the owner of the, the, the aristocrat who owned the estate...

Ah, he was not to be seen anywhere.

He was an absentee landlord. You said that.

He was--when the Soviets came, the, the landlord, the Polish landlord, Nagrabetski, never came back. He was a Kulak. If he would have come back, they would have snatched him and he would have been shipped to Siberia automatically.

He was a Kulak?

Sure, he's a--that's a Kulak. Any rich landowner is a Kulak. Yeah.

Oh, okay. All right. Okay.

You have to find a definition of--that's what...

In other words, Kulak are these independent farmers, right?

Yeah. And if you are a landowner, if you have...


...of substantial means, it might be thirty--forty acres--hectares...


...you are a rich man. Siberia, you got a ??? we will make you out, you know...


...we end your landlord--ownership of land.

So you think the--this, this Kulak took...

The Polish aristocrat...

...took off before the...

Oh, he was not there to start with.


But he never came back. He never came. He--come under the Soviet, you have to be stupid.

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