Voice/Vision Holocaust Survivor Oral History Archive

Martin Koby - April 20, 1999


Right. Then...

The wealth. They want the wealth and sub...and, and acceptance of the faith, for what? They converted them, they're good Catholics. Bullshit! You shoved it down their throat, they had no other choice! And they're human beings just as good as you are.

And what do you do with the Nazi hierarchy, Hitler, Himmler, Göring, who, um...

They should have kept them and like, like my friend--like my father's friend Timoszc said, they should have put them in cages, in solitary confinement with a glass--this is what it looks like.

But they didn't consider themselves Christians.

What the hell did they consider themselves?

Um, something, something...

It doesn't matter!

But uh, but Christianity is not the reason that they were--I mean, Hitler never said, I'm...

Why can...

...going to kill the kill--I'm going to kill the killers of Christ. He didn't say that. It wasn't his you know,...

What was it, then? What--who's...

It was a ra...as far as he was concerned, it was racial. And you--without the Christianity, I don't think you could have had the...

The Holocaust?

You--you couldn't have had the, the ???...

Why didn't the church...

The population was precon...preconditioned to say, all right, it's, it's just the Jews.

The Jews, yeah.

Yeah. But I think...

They're Christ killers. Because they've been, been for years and years and years, they were drowned in, the Jews are Christ killers.

But the, but the Nazis took a different position?

Then I think whatever their position was, it plays right into the hands of...


...of the church.

Okay. So is, is, is that the meaning that we, we should communicate from--when we're teaching the--of the Holocaust?

No, that should be secondary. We have to tell 'em this is what humanity did to humanity. This is what you did to the Indian, this is what humanity did to--you don't have to mention religion. This is what humanity did to the Indians of Mexico--Central America, South America, North America. What did we do to ??? the movies? We kill Indians! Hurray! Were they your enemies? You robbed them, you took them--you took their livelihood, you took their land. You destroyed their civilization. What are they supposed to do, kiss your ass?

Hm. Okay, so that's the Spanish. So we have, we have...

It's still wrong.

It's a tradition from Europe.

Yeah. White men. White men.

White, white Christian men.

No, White men. That's what White men did to, to, to all of these people.


You know, I sometimes wonder you know uh, you get a--one of these black preachers you know, that come--pushers--I have a one o'clock appointment.


That's okay. We got another fifteen minutes.


I made an appointment for my barber, because my barber is going to the Ukraine for a month.

And you're going to Bethesda, which is more important.

Oh, yes. And I have to have a haircut.


But I didn't know it's going to be today.

Okay. Uh, you think it's worthwhile, teaching about this--talking about it?

Yeah, I think so.

Yeah. Have you ever spoken to a group?

Not to a Christian group.

Just the Jewish groups.

At a synagogue and I said to myself, you're not material for speeches.

Uh, I would disagree, actually. I mean, that--your response to questions is, is, is very articulate. So, you might be...

I don't know if it's articulate, but...

Well, you'll listen ???



No, I don't want to listen to myself.

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