Voice/Vision Holocaust Survivor Oral History Archive

Sally Horwitz - June 18, 2007


No, I'm fine.

How "bout taking that stuff and put it on the table? Come on. Let's have a break. You want something to drink? Would you like something to drink?

No, none for me. You...

Cold um, um, I have decaf uh, in the refrigerator, would you like some?

No, I'm fine.

Would you like--I'll help you. Decaf?

Unidentified Woman: Yeah.

Okay. I can make uh, tea. Would you like...

Unidentified Woman: What radio do you listen to, what station?

Uh, we mostly the, the, the, the classical music.

Unidentified Woman: ???.

I, I, I don't like the, anything else. And television, forget it, forget it. It's just out of--we saw something on the Discovery Channel or History Channel. Those are the only two channels which is worth watching. They had yesterday , oh I'm sorry.

That's alright. Woman: What were you watching?

Go ahead.

Uh, we, is this, we gonna...

No, no, no.

I mean, record. Uh, they were watching, they found, they still finding all kinds of documents. Ancient, ancient documents the, the church was saving. Uh, or they found it places and they had the books um, what did they have that, this time about Daniel.

Book of Daniel, yeah.

Book of Daniel. And they make him uh, more of a hero like, in that particular book.


That he was uh, you know, in the lion's den first, then he was in the fire thing, but this was another thing. Uh, how he got out of it. I came in because I was on the telephone and he didn't want to get me up because it was an out of town call. So I came in almost in the middle, and I was almost mad at him that he didn't tell me to get in there. I love I told you, Bible stories. [laughs] And then they had a part of Joseph that, we actually think he married the priest's daughter.

What's her name? Same name?

Right, but the thing was what they, the orthodox people think that the, the daughter, I mean the woman he married, Joseph married just so happened--when uh, uh, Dina, Joseph's daughter.




Excuse me. Uh, was Jacob's story, excuse me. Uh, was, she left David the, the prince, she went there and of course she became pregnant or whatever, and they killed the whole, everybody.


And the brother, oh boy. Good grief.


Uh, so she, she stayed with his parents and there was, because she was pregnant. So they were so angry that they all went to Egypt and she went with them. She didn't go back to her father, but she stayed with the, with the people, um...


Yeah. So they went there. So the orthodox people think that Joseph married somebody from that line. It's bologna of course, but it serves them right.


Anyways, so ???, we were at the um, ???, I don't remember. We had a lot of people in that class. I'm very terrible as you can see. So they were talking about something and bringing up something and I said to myself, "oh my god," and of course I said it out loud, this is a real problem of mine, they all bursted out laughing. [laughs] And the, the teacher was laughing. It was a...

Right. [laughs]

So, but it serves them, you know, to make it uh, ???. So anyways, so Jewish Joseph did, he took a girl, ??? came in a little bit later there on this one the Jewish was first thing. And she had to convert, so I don't know what they did with the beads or with the ashes, all kinds of stuff. And I came in when they were doing that. I mean, all that was done, I should say. So what happened and after she went through all that, she became Jewish, I mean, converted. And he married her. Fine, but there's one story, there's another story. Which one do you believe? The convert, I don't know ???.

I don't...

Gave her time to convert, I ???. He was, he was next to the King there.

The first assimilated Jew. [laughs]

[laughs] And how, his kids when, when, when his father came. And the two grandson came to visit him he didn't recognize them. They say because he couldn't see. He didn't recognize them because they were dressed like Egyptians, I think. They, they didn't act like Jews. There was, he was assimilated. Why did he, why did they bring, why did the two kids they came uh, uh, they marched with them eventually, god knows I'm an easy ???. They came back with the Israelites.


And they became one of the tribes. They had Joseph, I mean uh, Menashe and the ???, I forgot.

No, it starts with a P.

Unidentified Woman: You should have her come to your class.


Unidentified Woman: He's teaching a class on the Bible this summer.


Unidentified Woman: He is.

He is, he better remember the name.

Unidentified Woman: [laughs]

[laughs] I'll bring you, I'll bring the book. Ok, I'm gonna shut it off now.

??? the kids on, on, on, on uh, Friday night, you should be like ???. And the boys, ??? and, who's the other one?

It starts with a P, I can't remember.

I'll find out from my husband, he better know. Hey Mort.

Husband: Yeah.

Joseph's two sons, ??? and?

Husband: ???.

Oh ???. It's Ryan, it's not a P.

Unidentified Woman: It's not a P, but its close.

Ryan, I don't...

??? and Ryan, you should feel like ??? and Ryan. If my husband said so, I believe him.

Okay, okay. Okay here we go. [laughs]

Okay, we go. Everybody had a little rest from me. I had a rest from me too. I'll need a bottle of vodka to go to sleep tonight.


You better send me a bottle of vodka, ha, ha, ha.

And drink it together.

Oh boy, I don't drink it anymore, I don't drink anymore. Once upon a time. Hey, ??? that's a good cup of coffee, I, I can't repeat it again.

Unidentified Woman: Is it not working?

Not yet.

I came home, they killed two people in my hometown while I was there. If my sister wouldn't come and get me, one of my sisters is with tonight, you're going home tonight. They killing Jews all over Poland.


And uh, I had to go with her, I had to go home with her. So I went, we went on the train. They would call ??? after, they were calling for me because I registered. So the Poles came with, with rifle screaming and yelling, just bring me out. Can't imagine what uh, ??? already. Uh, so they started to shoot up the house. So one of the guys there had a, a revolver. So he started, because he was hiding in the woods and he told stories. I don't want to talk about it now. Uh, and he started to shoot out, so they thought that more people would come so they went away. Um, so we made it, I don't remember, he kept asking me, "how did you get home, how did you get to the house, to, to Zwolen. How did you get from ??? ?" I said, "please don't ask." There was bedlam, there were cars and trucks, you name it, we were, um. So when we got to Radom, we got on a--I don't know by horse, I have no idea how we got there. We went on a train. So the trains in Europe are, have these cabins with cabanas like, whatever you call them, partitions. So we were standing and waiting for the train to take off to Skarzysko, to Czenstochow. And there were two Polish girls standing next to me looking out. People coming and going, I mean, there was, Poles were uh, you know, ??? so many, the, the, the people from here were there, from there were here. It was bedlam, it, it was worse than the war. Uh, so I'm looking out the, the, the window, my sister is tired and she's sleeping on the floor, sitting on, on the floor. And [clears throat] she fell asleep, she wear a little babushka. And as I said I was light and the two girls are talking to me in Polish, and we're chatting back and forth, back and forth. And we're talking about all kinds of things, I guess, just chatting. And there were people on the platform there, you know, waiting to get in. They were on top of the car, of the train don't, uh. So there were a couple Jews and they looked, I, you couldn't recognize them if they're Jews or not because they were well fed and they were dressed, probably come from Russia. And they were walking around with a bottle of vodka, this is Jewish made for you. With a bottle of vodka and they go, stop at uh, that window and offer there, one of the girls a drink of vodka with the bottle. So she told them, "no thank you," he walks away. She looks at me and says, "look at that, look at that, I swear to God I thought Hitler killed them all, I thought, he thought I didn't know he was Jewish. I thought he was gonna kill them all and they're still here." I thought, my knees buckled, I thought I'd take my fist and put it in, into her mouth. But I say if I want to live [clears throat] I better make believe I don't know what she's talking about. We got off the, the train and my sister hears what, what she said and she saw those two guys and she says you stupid, you stupid Jew. [laughs] She says you know what she said, "too bad Hitler didn't kill us all." He turned red in the face and walked away. There you go, this is my, my, this is a, ???, my, my ???.

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