Voice/Vision Holocaust Survivor Oral History Archive

Isaac Engel - June 16 & 25, 1992

Conditions Under the Germans

What was the next series of events? Were there laws passed, were you, was there rationing?

Oh yeah.

Did they set up a ghetto?

The ghetto came later. Rationing right away. There was rationing right away. Even you could buy something on the black market, you know. But there was rationing was right away. So and so much bread. There was on uh, you could get buy uh, buy and, from kosher meat, it was not available. Stuff like this. And, and uh, and then the ghetto came in later. The ghetto by us was in '41, they created. In Warsaw they made it before, I understand. But in uh, by us they made it in '41. By us the ghetto there was no, like uh, not, n...n...not like in Warsaw they were standing around. There were soldiers, German soldiers, outside. Sending Jewish police inside. No, this wasn't. There was a sign that they moved some the--Wherever a Pole lived in the ghetto area, he had to move out or exchange with somebody, which he lived in on, in the, in the Polish area. So this came in four...in '41. That's when they made the real ghetto, in the ghetto. You know, they were starting to make it smaller and smaller and smaller and pushing in more so they can squeeze. And then there was typhus.



... was there a Judenrat?

Oh yes. This was the biggest disaster. The Judenrat and the Jewish Police. 'Cause they were the ones. They delivered the merchandise.

The Jews.


Who were they?

Whatever they wanted. They were the same people which we knew before. Not people--I'll give you an example--my father was in the Jewish community counsel. Matter of fact, he was the head for six years. But when the war came, I didn't have nothing to do with them. So somebody else took it over. You know, there were people they push themselves. The meantime, they had it good. They weren't--they had everything. They thought you know, they was--they were dreaming that they are the ones they're going be survive. You know, everybody else are going to be going. They are going to be the ones they will survive. But I was in the city. I was the last--from the--from '42, by us it was in the end of September 1942 when they rounded up the whole city was out to Treblinka. And I happened to be in the city 'til the last minute because most of the young people were my, weren't there. My brother--my older brother was in the underground. Most of the other young people they were taken in, in the camps, in the working camps like. They were making ammunition uh, powder and stuff like this for the war. Forms they were taking 'em. Because everything they had it figured out. And then, in '42 they took out men, women, children, even if there were some younger ones. They sent 'em all to Treblinka.

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