Henry Dorfman - August 11 & 25, 1989
Transport to Treblinka
Had there been transports leaving from Kozienice already?
No, it was quiet. They just took--I remember one thing. Some of my family, there was a little town, that little town right on the Vistula, the name of the town was ??? ??? ???. It was maybe a hundred and fifty, two hundred Jews there. They took 'em all. This was the test of Treblinka. They took 'em direct from there with, with trucks into Treblinka. German trucks. None of them ever survived that we ever knew. Nobody escaped. And very simply. In, in Yom Kippur. And so we were there, we come home for Rosh Hashanah, we had two days. So we already stayed a few days, because we said, why we're going to go back and forth, it was very risky. Because you see the Gestapo was going around and looking for people, 'cause we were not on the list. If they found somebody in the ghetto that wasn't on the list, completely, was right away killed, killed. Because you didn't belong there. You know, you didn't know, who is that. Uh, we happened to have the luck and we stayed on Yom Kippur, we went to daven, Yom Kippur was the--they...
The roundup.
They roundup the whole, the whole thing and everybody on the trains. Ma, me and my father we, we cried. And my little brother. Because the other, the other kids, they were so depressed and my mother. I remember. Because we didn't know if we're going to go on the same train or not. She kissed me and hugged me like, like--she said, "I hope I see you again. I hope I see you again." I never saw her again. I was with the kids, with little kids the day they took those women right separate. [long pause] Then we drove--probably it was a few days to get to Treblinka it was. And the second day ??? I don't know, we didn't have, we weren't smart enough, but those other people, that they had some stupid items, whatever they took with them, I don't know how they--you know, you could have taken it, nobody, nobody really, it was going so fast that you, that you could have it. You even--a gun in your pocket, but we didn't think about it, I don't know. [pause] My father riding with the little kids, must have figured out. Here I am crying, I didn't even cry then. I knew this is the end. We were holding on to father, coming in he was stronger so they put us in. And we opened up. Took us about--all night we opened up a few in that train, that cattle train and we jumped out. And I don't know, my father ripped a whole piece of meat off here, he was bleeding all kinds of--I took off my shirt, I was going for three days without a shirt, without anything. Because nothing you took with you. And it was cold, it was in the fall, you know. Rain, oh my God. Finally we were afraid, in the first day or two we were afraid to stop anyplace because the train was going through some, I don't know maybe some other Jews, but, there was told those in the train--those, that the, that the goyim are, the Gentiles are waiting to catch the Jews, give 'em back for things or, or see if they got, they took away, they got any pieces. We had--I had in my shoes, I had some gold, gold pieces put into, to the uh, heels, you know. Father had to, father had to...This was the end of my life, my whole family. Everybody was on that train. Little that little kid with my, my cousin, Yosef Arial what lives in Israel, he was the same thing, he was the same age, eight--nine, maybe a year older or two years older than my brother. He couldn't--they already round up the ghetto--at the ghetto. He couldn't get in, he was outside. The same thing run around to get food to bring in because he was a little kid and he, and he couldn't get in and that's why he's alive. And we knew all along where he was hidden. Yeah, and the same thing with three, four hundred Jews. What happened with the three, four hundred Jews. So, whoever was there, I mean, I think two days later they came and round them up and put in the same thing, in--they took them to dif...the different concentration camps.
These are the ones who were with Meyer?
Yeah. But, but we created. But the thing was that Meyer, Meyer didn't think that we are-- he figured that, he told us, he told my father and me and a few others that don't go on the trains. Whatever, if you--because if you go on the trains you're never, you're never going--this, this is the end of your life. So a lot of 'em escaped, but a lot of 'em got... again, brought out from there. They was hanged up off the uh, bigger ghetto. In our area there was hanged up papers uh, you know, if you bring, if you bring a Jew you get a hundred kilo of sugar, you understand. A hundred kilo of sugar was like, was like eh, a whole lifetime, you know, who, who, who had sugar--you understand. So they come out or you get butter or you get sugar or you get this or you get that. The people got it, how do I know what. That's why a lot of the p...people that escaped got caught. And the rest of them went through, went to, like my wife, Mala. She was on, on the same--in the Kozienice earlier somebody else created something like this to guard Jews from the ghetto to work everyday. And she got saved because they picked her out and they took her to Czest...to uh, Skarzysko, where they were making the ammunition. All the--you know, the, the, the girls, boys, strong, you know, I mean, stronger. But not kids, kids. That's why the whole Holocaust is talking about six million Jews, six million Jews. Every household had four or five kids. And nobody is really talking about kids. My--talk a little--you just--my body is numb when you talk about it. And it won't help. What did they do, the bastards? If we knew what would happen today there would be nobody saying a word. Nobody would say anything because here what's happening in Israel. If a Mr. Dole--an educated man, can come out and condemn Israel or the State Department. To blame Israel on account of the, of that colonel to be hanged because Israel, because Israel created. That's what happened in Hitler's time. Everything that was done, the Jews did it. How we get credit? I don't know how. I don't know how. Just one thing, we just got to get violent. I'm watching people, I woulda let it--how many people, if, if we act to a, to a Mr. Dole, to a bastard like this, he's a complete Nazi. He would like to see Israel destroyed right now. But Israel is s...surrounded with--the way we were surrounded with barbarism and those Nazis, the Israelis is surrounded today by those Arabs the same way. Believe me, nobody would get out alive. God forbid. They can, they can walk into ??? there would be the worst atrocity that we would ever see. Whatever anybody ever said, now after the fact they would talk about it, but that's about it. And then when it started ??? until we got back to our area where we, where we--first thing we got back to that Meyer, you know, to him. You got in that night, uh.
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