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Manya Auster Feldman - August 11, 1998

You met, you met the partisans in the forest—same forest?

Yes.

Uh, this—this is not the uh, Pinsk group.

No.

We're still in, in. . .

No, this was, this was beggining, this was—when we wereuh, still in Karasin in this forect, that was the beginning of the creationof the partisan movement. Without us knowing it We learned, very soon later,very soon after we learned that a part. . . and how did, how did the partisanmovement start from the prisoners of war. They started escaping the uh, camps.The prisoners of war, the Russians. And because—see how stupid he was?If he would have treated them right, I don't know if there would have beena, a partisan movement. Its true. They had to escape. They, they were treatedhorrible in the camps, they didn't have any food and forget about food, theywere dying like flies. So they started escaping the prisoners uh, the, the,the camps. And they came into the forest and this is when they saw that theyhad to start fighting the Germans from the back. So they sent a u. . . theysent a man, who was a, a general in World War I. He was fighting, he was inpartisans. He was an old guy already, Kovpak was his name. They sent him fromRussia. He—they, they, they sent him down with a parachute into the,into the area, into our area and he started organizing the partisans.

Kovpak?

Kovpak.

Alright, um, when how did they make contact with you?

Okay. So uh, my father was always afraid, was always afraid thatwe'll ge. . . we'll—I mean it was a fatalistic outlook. We'll be killedanyway, no matter, it's a, it's a matter of time. It's a fatalistic—becauseit was true. So, at that time the young people that escaped from the ghettos,young guys and and and middle-aged men mostly, their, their objective wasto, to get weapons. To get a hand on any kind of weapon, a pistol, a huntingrifle, any rifle, anything. Just—not so much as to fight the Germansas to protect yourself. What if they catch you alive? And a case like thishappened and that's what pushed us into the partisans. There was a group ofuh, they were nine uh, uh, nine men and two girls. They already um, um securedthemselves with rifles, not all of them uh, had rifles. But—so, so theywere able to go to, to, to, the farmers and ask for food, it was—don'tforget it was November already there were no food in the fields. How do you,how do you survive on no food? So they had to go and find—show him astick of a rifle so he gave 'em something to eat. Then they had to confiscatesome uh, some other uh, uh, object. And for the objects to buy uh, uh, weapons.Most of the farmers there had weapons but you had to uh, obtain them. Money,we didn't have. So some of them went to their places where they lived andthey uh, um they um, had some clothing that they hid. So they took the clothingand brought it to the farmer in exchange for a rifle or they got, got somemoney and for money they bought salt and for salt they could get a rifle.There were all kind of dealings.

So a black market system. . .

Black market in the forest. So this, this group was like a uh,uh, they were already like um, um, fighters. So they came into—with awomen and they took away her sewing machine and that angered her to death.She—we, w. . . marched all the way to the German headquarters and said,"Save us! Look whats going on. The Jews are killing us. Look they're, they'restealing they're they're robbing and now they have weapons and they are killingus too." So they sent out a group of Ukrainians and a couple of German andthey ch. . . started chasing that group you know, the, the farmers have helpedthem, telling them where they are. So they found them, nine of them are sleepingin the barn and the two girls and uh and the—and uh and one boy sleptin, in the house. They, they caught them. You uh, had no idea what kind ofdeath they made for—they did for them. They, they, they cut-off theirears, they cut-off their tongues, they, they, they, cut-out their eyes andthey, they bound them not completely dead to the uh, the tail of the horseand dragged them through the village. And showing, "see, this is what willhappen to you if you assist the partisans, if you'll save a Jew." So my fathersaid, "Now, how are—how we going to escape?" This sort of thing. So wedecided I am gonna go back to my city and see we had hid some, some clothingwith a, with a gentleman. And uh, I—one of the uh, one of the farmersfrom that Karasin village agreed to take me. I should change my clothes andhe'll take me there at night and I'll go in and get my clothes and for clothesgo by som. . . something.

In Dombrowice?

Yeah. But in that, in the, in that week uh, a uh, group of scoutsfrom the uh, Kovpak group, the Kovpak Otriad it was called, they were alreadyorganized. They were stationed already—about like twenty kilometers further,so they came out and they were mobilising people, they were mobilising Jewsand they were mobilising even local uh, uh, people. To go and join the partisans.. .

Whats the name of the group?

The Kovpaks.